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	<title>Seeking Justice &#38; Reconciliation at Mars Hill Church</title>
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		<title>Seeking Justice &#38; Reconciliation at Mars Hill Church</title>
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		<title>A Reprise&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2010/01/03/a-reprise/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 06:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Bill Kinnon penned a poignant re-write of Jay Rosen&#8217;s piece &#8220;The People Formerly Known as The Audience.&#8221; PH cannot read the following piece without tears; of sorrow&#8230;and of joy. Let me introduce you to The People formerly known as The Congregation. There are millions of us. We are people &#8211; flesh and blood &#8211; image [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=79&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Kinnon penned a poignant re-write of Jay Rosen&#8217;s piece <a title="&quot;The People Formerly Known as The Audience.&quot;" href="http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/weblogs/pressthink/2006/06/27/ppl_frmr.html" target="_blank">&#8220;The People Formerly Known as The Audience.&#8221; </a> PH cannot read the following piece without tears; of sorrow&#8230;and of joy.</p>
<p>Let me introduce you to <strong>The People formerly known as The Congregation</strong>. There are millions of us.</p>
<p>We are people &#8211; flesh and blood  &#8211; image bearers of the Creator &#8211;  <strong>eikons</strong>, if you will. We are not numbers&#8230;<span id="more-79"></span></p>
<p>We are the eikons who once sat in the uncomfortable pews or plush theatre seating of your preaching venues. We sat passively while you proof-texted your way through 3, 4, 5 or no point sermons &#8211; attempting to tell us how you and your reading of The Bible <strong>had a plan for our lives</strong>. Perhaps God does have a plan for us &#8211; it just doesn&#8217;t seem to jive with yours.</p>
<p>Money was a great concern. And, for a moment, we believed you when you told us God would reward us for our tithes &#8211; or curse us if we didn&#8217;t. The Law is just so much easier to preach than Grace. My goodness, if you told us that the 1st century church held everything in common &#8211; you might be accused of being a socialist &#8211; and of course, capitalism <strong>is</strong> a direct gift from God. Please further note: Malachi 3 is speaking to the priests of Israel. They weren&#8217;t the cheerful givers God speaks of loving.</p>
<p>We grew weary from your Edifice Complex pathologies &#8211; building projects more important than the people in your neighbourhood&#8230;or in your pews. It wasn&#8217;t God telling you to &#8220;enlarge the place of your tent&#8221; &#8211; it was your ego. And, by the way, a multi-million dollar, state of the art building is hardly a tent.</p>
<p>We no longer buy your call to be &#8220;fastest growing&#8221; church in wherever. That is your need. You want a bigger audience. We won&#8217;t be part of one.</p>
<p>Our ears are still ringing from the volume, but&#8230;Jesus is not our boyfriend &#8211; and we will no longer sing your silly love songs that suggest He is. Happy clappy tunes bear no witness to the reality of the world we live in, the powers and principalities we confront, or are worthy of the one we proclaim King of Kings and Lord of Lords.</p>
<p>You offered us a myriad of programs to join &#8211; volunteer positions to assuage our desire to be connected. We could be greeters, parking lot attendants, coffee baristas, book store helpers, children&#8217;s ministry workers, media ministry drones &#8211; whatever you needed to fulfill your dreams of corporate glory. Perhaps you&#8217;ve noticed, we aren&#8217;t there anymore.</p>
<p>We are <strong>The People formerly known as The Congregation</strong>. We have not stopped loving the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Nor do we avoid &#8220;the assembling of the saints.&#8221; We just don&#8217;t assemble under your supposed leadership. We meet in coffee shops, around dinner tables, in the parks and on the streets. We connect virtually across space and time &#8211; engaged in generative conversations &#8211; teaching and being taught.</p>
<p>We live amongst our neighbours, in their homes and they in ours. We laugh and cry and really live &#8211; without the need to have you teach us how &#8211; by reading your ridiculous books or listening to your supercilious CDs or podcasts.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t deny Paul&#8217;s description of APEPT leadership &#8211; <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%204:11%20;&amp;version=65;">Ephesians 4:11</a>. We just see it in the light of Jesus&#8217; teaching in Mark 10 and Matthew 20 &#8211; servant leadership. We truly long for the release of servant leading men and women into our gifts as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. We believe in Peter&#8217;s words that describe us all as priests. Not just some, not just one gender.</p>
<p>We are <strong>The People formerly known as The Congregation</strong>. We do not hate you. Though some of us bear the wounds you have inflicted. Many of you are our brothers and our sisters, misguided by the systems you inhabit, intoxicated by the power &#8211; yet still members of our family. (Though some are truly wolves in sheep&#8217;s clothing.)</p>
<p>And, as <strong>The People formerly known as The Congregation</strong>, we invite you to join us on this great adventure. To boldly go where the Spirit leads us. To marvel at what the Father is doing in the communities where He has placed us. To live the love that Jesus shows us.</p>
<p style="text-align:center;">***</p>
<p>View the rest of Bill&#8217;s comments <a title="HERE" href="http://www.kinnon.tv/2007/03/the_people_form.html" target="_blank">HERE</a>.</p>
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		<title>The Great Chair &#8216;O Great Authority</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/the-great-chair-o-authority/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 04:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>prayingheart</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[A great post about authoritarian and/or narcissitic narsistist narcissistic leadership can be found in Bill Kinnon&#8217;s blog HERE.  (Grandma, how do you spell &#8220;narcissistic&#8221;?  &#8220;Badly, dear, badly.&#8221;)  Unsurprisingly, the post uses many of the events documented in the January NYT  article as examples. A &#8220;sad but true&#8221; snippet: &#8220;One of the positions people with Narcissistic [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=75&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="/Users/JULIAV%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg" alt="" />A great post about authoritarian and/or <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">narcissitic</span> <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">narsistist</span> narcissistic leadership can be found in Bill Kinnon&#8217;s blog <a title="Revisiting the Chair O' Great Authority" href="http://www.kinnon.tv/2009/10/revisiting-the-chair-o-great-authority.html">HERE</a>.  (Grandma, how do you spell &#8220;narcissistic&#8221;?  &#8220;Badly, dear, badly.&#8221;)  Unsurprisingly, the post uses many of the events documented in the January NYT  article as examples.</p>
<p>A &#8220;sad but true&#8221; snippet:</p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;text-align:justify;">&#8220;One of the positions people with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder">Narcissistic Personality Disorder</a> &#8211; extreme narcissists &#8211; are attracted to is church leadership. It is one of the best places to practice irrational authority unchallenged &#8211; as these leaders convince you they are on a mission from God.&#8221;</p>
<p style="text-align:justify;">-PH</p>
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		<title>New York Times Article on Mars Hill Church / Mark Driscoll</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-york-times-article-on-mars-hill-church-mark-driscoll/</link>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>prayingheart</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[Hats off to Molly Worthen for writing an amazingly even-handed article about Mars Hill Church and the various themes and memes that run through it.   The article &#8220;Who Would Jesus Smack Down?&#8221; appeared in The New York Times &#8220;Magazine&#8221; section on Sunday, January 12, 2009.  MH/Driscoll admirers will consider the article very complimentary.  Detractors will [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=72&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hats off to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Worthen" target="_blank">Molly Worthen</a> for writing an amazingly even-handed article about Mars Hill Church and the various themes and memes that run through it.   The article &#8220;<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11punk-t.html?pagewanted=2&amp;emc=eta1" target="_blank">Who Would Jesus Smack Down?&#8221; </a>appeared in The New York Times &#8220;Magazine&#8221; section on Sunday, January 12, 2009.  MH/Driscoll admirers will consider the article very complimentary.  Detractors will find the article to give clear voice to the aspects that grieve them most.</p>
<p>One quote in particular broke PH&#8217;s heart:   &#8220;At one suburban campus that I visited, a huge yellow cross dominated center stage — until the projection screen unfurled and Driscoll’s face blocked the cross from view.&#8221;</p>
<p>Driscoll&#8217;s face blocked the cross from view.  In a nutshell: the very reason so many faithful, active, and involved members have departed the hip halls of MHC.</p>
<p>Click <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11punk-t.html?pagewanted=2&amp;emc=eta1" target="_blank">HERE</a> to read the full article in the NYT.</p>
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		<title>Great Book For Abused or Mistreated Elders&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/great-book-for-abused-or-mistreated-elders/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 06:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>prayingheart</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[Or those in church leadership simply wondering if THEY are crazy.  Trust PH&#8230;if you are wondering this, you probably are not. PH has received excellent  feedback from those who have read book by Dr. John K. Setser:  &#8220;Broken Hearts, Shattered Trust/Workplace Abuse of Staff in the Church&#8221;.  If any are interested in receiving their  own [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=67&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or those in church leadership simply wondering if THEY are crazy.  Trust PH&#8230;if you are wondering this, you probably are not.</p>
<p>PH has received excellent  feedback from those who have read book by Dr. John K. Setser:  &#8220;Broken Hearts, Shattered Trust/Workplace Abuse of Staff in the Church&#8221;.  If any are interested in receiving their  own copy, Dr. Setser is  happy to send on at no charge (at this point).  Just email him at <a href="mailto:johnsetser@hotmail.com">johnsetser@hotmail.com</a>  and ask.</p>
<p>Dr. Setser is the founder of Baranbas Ministries:  <a href="http://www.shatteredtrust.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.shatteredtrust.com</a> .</p>
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		<title>Does Mark Driscoll Continue to Lie to Mars Hill Members?</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/mark-driscoll-continues-to-lie-to-mars-hill-members/</link>
		<comments>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/mark-driscoll-continues-to-lie-to-mars-hill-members/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>prayingheart</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church discipline]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Elder (Dis)Qualifications]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Elders Response Document]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mark driscoll]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Bent Meyer]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[The below was submitted to PH via email. Since each fact checks out and the points are extremely relevant and important, PH is posting the article. ******************************** Mark Driscoll keeps changing the story. Just as a suspected adulterer lies to cover his sin to appear innocent, Mark Driscoll and the elders are changing the story [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=66&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><font color="#993366"><i><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">The below was submitted to PH via email.  Since each fact checks out and the points are extremely relevant and important, PH is posting the article.</span></i></font></p>
<p>********************************</p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">Mark Driscoll keeps changing the story.<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">Just as a suspected adulterer lies to cover his sin to appear innocent, Mark Driscoll and the elders are changing the story as they defend their actions.</span><span id="more-66"></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">This is illuminating. It shows that after 5 months there is still pressure to explain their actions. It also shows that Mark Driscoll and the elders are ashamed of the original story they put out and have to come up with better reasons why they fired Pastor Paul and Pastor Bent.<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">And… story is changing…again.    Mark Driscoll now states publicly that the two pastors were fired for poor job performance. Why did we not hear this when they were fired 5 months ago? Because Mark Driscoll did not think of saying it 5 months ago – it was not even on his mind at that point.  Furthermore, it never would have passed the laugh test then. They had both received good job performance reviews just a couple of months before their firings. We members have watched these men work harder than any two Elders we know.<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">So why this new lie from Mark Driscoll?<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">The new lie is being presented because the truth  shows the actions taken to be sinful and wrong. He cannot stick to that story because it is shameful, and he therefore is still looking for the story that the hearers will believe, so that folks will just let this go.  Now, he teaches young Acts 29 pastors that &#8220;just as he had to recently do, sometimes you have to remove elders even though there is no charge against them – they are simply not doing their job.&#8221;<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">Below is the evolution of what we have been told.  Read it, and grieve for the sin of our leaders.<br />
</span></p>
<ol>
<li>
<div><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><b>September 2007:</b><b>The men were &#8220;fired for sin&#8221;</b> Not moral sin but sin that serious enough to fire them. We members were not told what the sin was so as to protect the two elders and to avoid fueling gossip. <i>(Munson letter on members site)</i></span></div>
</li>
<li>
<div><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><b>October 2007: </b><b>It was all about the bylaws.</b> In the resulting confusion and consternation from the membership, a long time member known for her respectful manner asked to see a copy of the bylaws under which she was governed and these men were fired, she was denied the opportunity.  Instead, Mark Driscoll told her in an extremely patronizing tone on the members&#8217; site that she had unintentionally stumbled on the root problem of the matter, the by-laws. <i>(Driscoll post on members site)</i><br />
</span></div>
</li>
<li>
<div><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><b>October 2007: </b><b>Violating Elder Protocol.</b>  Members were told that these  men violated elder protocol by discussing the proposed by-laws with the church lawyer without the required permission.  Additionally, these men did not have and that have a proper respect (an &#8220;unhealthy distrust&#8221;) for their leaders. Elder protocol was also violated when one of these men allowed one member to see the confidential proposed new bylaws so as to ask for his insight on the proposed changes.<i> (Conversations with various elders, the 145 page document)</i>  </span></div>
</li>
<li>
<div><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><b>November 2, 2007: &#8220;Posturing and Grabbing at Power and Money</b>.&#8221; The Elders presented the infamous 145 page document in which they endeavored to explain their actions. A thorough reading of this document does not imply or even hint that the men had inadequate job performance. Instead, the newest allegation was that the men were posturing for and attempting to grab power and money. This latest allegation had never been mentioned prior to this.  A review of the facts shows that that there is absolutely no evidence that this accusation from Mark Driscoll is anything but a lie.*  It was just another desperate attempt to pacify the members and put out the fire that they had started.<br />
</span></div>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">*<i>A review of the facts shows clearly that if anyone can be accused of grabbing power and money it is Mark Driscoll and the other 4 executive elders. The very men that fired the two pastors and then proceeded to level charges against them are the same men that gained extraordinary power and additional money under the new by-laws. Under the existing bylaws, the executive 5 had only one vote of twenty four.  The Executive 5 would have 1 vote of 5 under the new by-laws. The new by-laws stripped all the other elders of any real power. Pastor Paul and Pastor Bent would gain no power or money were the existing bylaws kept in place.</i><br />
</span></li>
<li>
<div><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><b>November/December 2007: &#8220;Paul Petry refuses to be reconciled.&#8221;  </b>This lie has been fairly effective, therefore the elders have kept saying it.  <span style="text-decoration:underline;">James Harleman</span> has said that Pastor Paul has refused to be reconciled despite the elders seeking reconciliation<i> innumerable </i>times. <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Tim Quiring</span> states that Pastor Paul is divisive, angry, vindictive and &#8220;<i>not responded to the grace being offered to him by the Mars Hill leadership.&#8221; (the 145 page document, the Shunning letter.)</i> In fact neither of these men have made any contact with Pastor Paul at all in the 5 months since the firings. This is true of almost all the elders. Contrary to Mr. Harleman&#8217;s allegation, the number of attempts on the part of Mars Hill have been been pathetically few and usually adversarial in nature.  When Pastor Paul did agree to meet with Elder &#8220;x&#8221;, this elder changed the terms of the meeting and refused to meet with Pastor Paul under the originally agreed upon terms. The Elders have refused to meet with Pastor Paul. While Elder x was trying to arrange this meeting with Pastor Paul, the Elders   simultaneously were issuing a public announcement calling for Pastor Paul to be shunned by the members of Mars Hill. This is the grace referred to by Tim Quiring?<br />
</span></div>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">The &#8220;refusal to be reconciled&#8221; line has run its course and is becoming weak and non-credible.<br />
</span></li>
<li>
<div><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><b>February 2007: &#8220;Inadequate Job Performance&#8221; <i> </i></b><i>(Mark Driscoll &#8211; Acts 29 conference)</i><b><br />
</b></span></div>
</li>
</ol>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">And the story gets spun and respun. <b><br />
</b></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">These various evolutions of history were occurring as the Elders were being challenged that the charges were silly, the trial not fair and just by any reasonable person&#8217;s standards, and that the process was simply a mistake by naïve elders at best or blatantly sinful and cruel at worst. Each new lie has confirmed that the trial had merely demonstrated the sin resident in the heart.<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">Of course these stories will eventually cease to work because no member would expect a party so badly treated to willingly subject himself to further abuse. Many of us members have inquired of both fired pastors and heard that the Elders are stubborn and refusing to meet or yield. The story told by these men give a totally different perspective of the events. Both men have called for elders to cease their lies and repent of their actions.<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">The original charges and the ensuing actions taken by the elders cannot stand the test of biblical scrutiny.<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">We now hear that Mark Driscoll, who clearly and publically voiced to the church his anger towards the two elders in his Sept 30<sup>th</sup> sermon before he even fired telling us that in fact the men were actually fired for poor job performance.<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">Well. This latest lie will not stick either.<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">What will the next lie be?</span></p>
<p><font color="#993366"><i><b>PH: </b> Are these the actions of men qualified to be Elders? </i></font></p>
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		<title>Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Elders:  Betrayers of a Trust</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/mark-driscoll-and-mars-hill-elders-betrayers-of-a-trust/</link>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 01:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>prayingheart</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church discipline]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Elder (Dis)Qualifications]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mark driscoll]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pastoral Firings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bent Meyer]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[And then, there is the environment that has been fostered in Mars Hill. Shut Up &#38; Do What You&#8217;re Told Drink the Kool Aid PH knows many (mostly former) members who were leveled for respectfully, but vigorously expressing either doubt or dissent with the way that the firing of two beloved pastors was handled. These [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=65&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">And then, there is the environment that has been fostered in Mars Hill.<br />
</span></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM7dCj7QWKs&amp;NR=1"><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">Shut Up &amp; Do What You&#8217;re Told</span></a><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><br />
</span></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dSA5Vs9huc"><span style="color:blue;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;text-decoration:underline;">Drink the Kool Aid</span></a><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"> PH knows many (mostly former) members who were leveled for respectfully, but vigorously expressing either doubt or dissent with the way that the firing of two beloved pastors was handled.  These members were betrayed by the leadership that they had previously chosen to trust.  Many of these members were previously not even on MH radar, as their many years of membership history had demonstrated them to be what would be considered &#8220;model members.&#8221;   The members that reaped the devastation during these times were not &#8220;immature Christians&#8221; as the Elders of MH have tried to portray.  Many were, in fact, mature Christians with proven track records in ministry leadership that surpass Mark Driscoll in time and quality.  (Despite their never having fostered a &#8220;mega-church.)  PH would think that an outcry from this demographic would be taken very seriously by leadership within a church body. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;">Are the men who perpetrated or ignored such betrayal qualified to be Elders?</span></p>
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		<title>Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Elders:  In “Major” or “Minor” Sin?</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/mark-driscoll-and-mars-hill-elders-in-%e2%80%9cmajor%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cminor%e2%80%9d-sin/</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>prayingheart</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[Wow…in less than 2 minutes, this video says more about the injustices instigated by and under Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church than PH could write in 2 pages! Video: Major vs Minor Sins The topic question can be read one of two ways: Are these guys in sin – OR – is the sin [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=63&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow…in less than 2 minutes, this video says more about the injustices instigated by and under Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church than PH could write in 2 pages!  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zm1vzM2FAc">Video:  Major vs Minor Sins</a></p>
<p>The topic question can be read one of two ways:  Are these guys in sin – OR – is the sin that they are in Major or Minor.  PH will let you choose how to read it.</p>
<p>PH raises two follow-up questions, regardless of your read on the topic question.</p>
<ol>
<li>Are the men who participated in the firings and trial qualified to be elders?  And,</li>
<li>Are a) knowing and active disobedience of biblical principles, followed by b) false representations perpetrated to cover up the disobedience MAJOR or MINOR sins, by Driscoll&#8217;s definitions?</li>
</ol>
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		<title>Is Mark Driscoll’s Behavior Authoritarian and Abusive?</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/is-mark-driscoll%e2%80%99s-behavior-authoritarian-and-abusive/</link>
		<comments>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/is-mark-driscoll%e2%80%99s-behavior-authoritarian-and-abusive/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>prayingheart</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church discipline]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Elder (Dis)Qualifications]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/?p=61</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Controlling Personalities in the Church: The Warning Signs The second in a series of articles on the Wittenberg Gate website Authoritarian Leadership and Lack of Accountability &#8220;God, knowing our weak frame, has given us a structure for church authority. He tells us to have a multitude of counselors, all under the authority of King Jesus. [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=61&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:14pt;"><b>Controlling Personalities in the Church: The Warning Signs<br />
</b></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10pt;"><b><span style="font-family:Arial;">The second in a series of articles on the Wittenberg Gate website</span><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><br />
</span></b></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><b>Authoritarian Leadership and Lack of Accountability<br />
</b></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><span style="color:black;">&#8220;God, knowing our weak frame, has given us a structure for church authority. He tells us to have a multitude of counselors, all under the authority of King Jesus. Abusers, however, wish to operate on their own. They want to be king of the<span style="text-decoration:line-through;"> congregation </span></span><span style="color:#c00000;"><i>Elders/Deacons</i></span><span style="color:black;"><i>.</i> Their approach to this may be very subtle. A church council may be in place, but <b>each elder is hand-picked and known to be cooperative. </b></span><span style="color:#c00000;">(goodbye and good riddance to the problematic pastors, AND any outspoken members!)</span><span style="color:black;"> They may<b> be inexperienced churchmen who got their elder training only from this pastor,</b><br />
</span><span style="color:#c00000;">(Does this sound familiar?  Perhaps Jamie Munson? Anybody else?  PH needs both hands and a couple of toes to count them!) </span>or <span style="color:black;">overworked businessmen who are relieved to let the pastor make all the decisions. <b>The elders themselves may be manipulated and lied to and have information kept away from them</b>&#8221; </span><span style="color:#c00000;">(not to mention the membership!)<br />
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><span style="color:#c00000;"><i>If you need more information to decide the answer to the topic question, check out the articles starting at:   </i></span></span><a href="http://dory.typepad.com/wittenberg_gate/2005/05/controlling_per.html" target="_blank" title="HERE">http://dory.typepad.com/wittenberg_gate/2005/05/controlling_per.html</a></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><span style="color:#c00000;"></span><a><span style="color:black;"><br />
</span></a></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;"><a><br />
</a></span></p>
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		<title>Is Mars Hill Church &#8220;Toxic&#8221; or &#8220;Healthy&#8221; Under Mark Driscoll&#8217;s Leadership?</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/is-mars-hill-church-toxic-or-healthy-under-mark-driscolls-leadership/</link>
		<comments>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/is-mars-hill-church-toxic-or-healthy-under-mark-driscolls-leadership/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>prayingheart</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church discipline]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Elder (Dis)Qualifications]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Elders Response Document]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mark driscoll]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mars Hill Bylaws]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pastoral Firings]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/?p=57</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Toxic Churches A toxic church exists when &#8220;doing&#8221; becomes more important than &#8220;being.&#8221; In a toxic church, service to God is viewed as keeping church systems functioning, God&#8217;s blessing is seen as bigger budgets for bigger buildings to accommodate more people, and looking successful replaces love as the key ingredient.  In a church like this, the [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=57&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><font size="2" face="Verdana"><strong>Toxic Churches<br />
</strong>A toxic church exists when &#8220;doing&#8221; becomes more important than &#8220;being.&#8221; In a toxic church, service to God is viewed as keeping church systems functioning, God&#8217;s blessing is seen as bigger budgets for bigger buildings to accommodate more people, and looking successful replaces love as the key ingredient. <span id="more-57"></span> In a church like this, the church building is the place where God resides, and ministry success is measured by offerings received and the number of seats filled. A healing church speaks of Christ residing in people, not in buildings or programs. It encourages participants to be real and genuine, not appearance-oriented or performance-driven. As pastor and author Jerry Cook states, &#8220;Love means accepting people the way they are for Jesus&#8217; sake.&#8221; When churches emphasize loving, caring, and &#8220;being;&#8221; staff associates can enjoy being part of a healing organization. However, when they emphasize performance, appearance, and &#8220;doing;&#8221; associates risk being abused by the organization&#8217;s wounding dynamics.</font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Verdana">On the surface, it is impossible to know if a church functions as a healing or wounding organization. Even internally, the situation can be masked. This puts a prospective staff associate in a vulnerable position. It is only through active involvement that an individual can really discern the true nature of a church organization. If a person looking to work for a healing church joins one that is toxic, he or she is in for a rude awakening.</font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Verdana">One young man&#8217;s experience while interning as a staff associate illustrates this dilemma. He had entered a church leadership program that promised senior pastor mentoring, Bible study, and a closer walk with Jesus, but once on the job, he discovered that his church was not the organization it had appeared to be. Instead of being loved and cared for, he  was treated like a slave and expected to facilitate the church&#8217;s promotional agenda. To his dismay, he realized that he had become indentured to a corporate minded leader intent on developing a growth-oriented organization. He felt betrayed and used. He ended his internship and stopped attending church. He explained that he loved God, but no longer viewed church as a safe place. Given his experience, it is hard to disagree.</font><font size="2" face="Verdana"> </font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Verdana">Obviously, not all churches are religious machines. Most ministerial organizations genuinely desire to love God and serve people. However, toxic churches that put organizational success above the needs of people do exist and their numbers are growing. Staff associates who work for toxic churches are in danger of being exploited and mistreated. While there is no way to tell from the outside if a church is a toxic place or a place of healing, I believe the factor that most often plays a role in making a church toxic is when that church exchanges their spiritual paradigm for a corporate mandate.</font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Verdana"><strong>Corporate Mandate vs. Spiritual Paradigm</strong><br />
God is Spirit, and His ways are unsearchable. His blessings, although very real, are not always tangible or even visible because by nature they are spiritual and organic. God&#8217;s blessings are not to be measured or analyzed, they are meant to be experienced and lived. Churches that forget this in favor of qualifying and quantifying God&#8217;s blessings ultimately abandon a &#8220;spiritual paradigm&#8221; in favor of a &#8220;corporate mandate&#8221; that measures success in terms of ever-increasing assets.</font><font size="2" face="Verdana"> </font><font size="2" face="Verdana">A corporate mandate is appropriate if the goal is measurable success; not so if the goal is to love God and serve people. This is because the aim of a corporate mandate is, above all else, to benefit the organization. Success for these organizations is defined in financial, material, and numeric terms. The feelings, hopes, and needs of people are of little consequence under this mandate. Of prime importance is making sure that the organization survives and thrives. <font size="2" face="Verdana">A church, however, is called to embrace a spiritual paradigm, not a corporate mandate. As disciples of Christ, we are commanded in John 13:34 and 1 John 3:23 to love fellow Christians in the same manner that Christ loves them. Churches are called to exercise faith, trusting God to lead, guide, and provide. They are not to measure, strategize, or lean on human understanding (Prov. 3:5-7). When a church organization becomes preoccupied with such things as promotion, production, and ministry image, it abandons a spiritual paradigm.</font></font><font size="2" face="Verdana"><font size="2" face="Verdana">Churches do need to be organized. Whenever people come together there must be leadership, rules, and structure. The distinction between a healthy church and one being run under a corporate mandate is that instead of being served, people become slaves to a mindset that puts organizational need above the needs of people. Embracing a corporate mandate elevates the importance of the organization and motivates leaders to depreciate the value of loving God and serving people. Once this occurs, the organization takes on a self-serving mentality; meaning, whatever needs to be done to protect the organization is legitimized and spiritualized.</font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Verdana">There are many ways for a corporate mindset to overtake a church. For example, it can happen when the hard work connected with a season of growth causes the church to lose sight of its original purpose. This happened to one church led by a pastor whom we will call Tom. He started the church by espousing such ideals as unconditional love and acceptance. The church&#8217;s vision statement emphasized joy, community, and commitment to Christ. The church grew because Tom was committed to these ideals. Everything went well until the church became prosperous enough to purchase a building. Once the building was purchased, it became Tom&#8217;s obsession. Money, remodeling, and filling seats were all he could think about. Subtly, ministry packaging and a promotional agenda became more important than caring for people. Today, the vision statement hangs in the foyer as only a sad reminder of what the church used to be. The promotional agenda still operates as a demonstration of what a church can become.</font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Verdana">What happened to Tom and his church is not uncommon. Many churches begin by espousing spiritual and relational goals only to end up embracing a corporate mandate. It can happen slowly and imperceptibly, that in the name of doing &#8220;God&#8217;s work&#8221; conscience is violated, integrity breached, or a situation manipulated. Such things happen all the time. For example, on any given Sunday it is not uncommon for senior pastors to garner emotional testimonies that &#8220;capitalize on the emotional bonds that…take advantage of people&#8217;s warm feelings.&#8221; This is done in the name of leading people to Christ or raising money to continue the church&#8217;s ministry.</font><font size="2" face="Verdana"> </font><font size="2" face="Verdana">Manipulating emotions for the purpose of scripting a desired response is antithetical to the teachings of Christ. Nevertheless, it is often accepted and justified as being in the best interest of the church. Leaders who use these techniques are blind to the fact that in so doing, they are exchanging a spiritual paradigm for a corporate mandate. For these leaders organizational success may not be the stated goal, but it becomes the goal by default. In this environment, the staff is especially vulnerable because the goals of the organization are set, not by associates, but by the leaders in the power structure.</font><font size="2" face="Verdana"><font size="2" face="Verdana">______________________________________________________________</font></font><font size="2" face="Verdana"><font size="2" face="Verdana">Broken Hearts Shattered Trust identifies causes while compassionately embracing both sinner and sinned against.</font><font size="2" face="Verdana">For a free copy of the book please send an e-mail with your<br />
mailing address to:</font><font size="2" face="Verdana"> </font><font size="2" face="Verdana"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.mail2web.com/cgi-bin/compose.asp?mb=inbox&amp;mp=I&amp;mps=0&amp;lid=0&amp;intListPerPage=20&amp;messageto=johnsetser@hotmail.com&amp;ed=2WiclEfmDU7PPbjbO9Z2eck5gZew1WVr0ue8mDtTcxhqwE0V08oQ2N2k04A%2BBwpUZ54kHZ%2FM5A3F%0D%0Adt9WIbSJgAf%2Fa0PIWczbMAEwuSlhxxeyzd%2FC32xI%2FllNWncEpeCY9sxWp4WV5HTfMovwvdP5"><font size="2" face="Verdana">johnsetser@hotmail.com</font></a><font size="2" face="Verdana"> </font></font></font></p>
<p></font></p>
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		<title>Elders and Deacons at Mars Hill Church</title>
		<link>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/elders-and-deacons-at-mars-hill-church/</link>
		<comments>http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/elders-and-deacons-at-mars-hill-church/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>prayingheart</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church discipline]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Paul Petry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[resurgence]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/elders-and-deacons-at-mars-hill-church/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Elder el•der (el&#8217;der) n. 1. Elected or appointed governing officer within a church. See 1 Timothy 3: 1-7, Titus 1: 6-9 Under the new bylaws, most of the men that Mars Hill Church refers to as &#8220;elders&#8221; Deacons dea•con (de&#8217;ken) n. 1. Attendant or assistant to church leaders. See 1 Timothy 3: 8 (The above [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=prayingheart.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2537838&amp;post=46&amp;subd=prayingheart&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Elder<br />
</b></p>
<p><b>el•der</b> (el&#8217;der) n. 1. Elected or appointed governing officer within a church. See 1 Timothy 3: 1-7, Titus 1: 6-9     Under the new bylaws, most of the men that Mars Hill Church refers to as &#8220;elders&#8221;</p>
<p><b>Deacons</b><br />
<b>dea•con</b> (de&#8217;ken) n. 1. Attendant or assistant to church leaders.  <a href="http://www.marshillchurch.org/content/See%2b1%2bTimothy%2b3%253a%2b8"><span style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline;">See 1 Timothy 3: 8</span></a></p>
<p>(The above definitions are found  <a href="http://www.marshillchurch.org/content/staff">HERE</a> on the Mars Hill Church website.)</p>
<p><b><i>Under the new bylaws, most of the men that Mars Hill Church refers to as &#8220;elders&#8221; are more accurately referred to as &#8220;executive deacons.&#8221; With the exception of the Executive 5 (Mark Driscoll, Scott Thomas, Jamie Munson, Tim Belz and Bubba Jennings) no elder has any power of governance. Maybe this isn&#8217;t such a big deal…except for the 2000 or so members who signed up for a plurality of elders, in which many men had governing power, and held each other accountable.  Of course, it could be said that arrangement didn&#8217;t help…after all, these 18+ men voted to give up their power to govern.<br />
</i></b></p>
<p>In case any folks out there are interested in contacting the Mars Hill leadership and are brave enough to actually do so, their contact information is found <a href="http://www.marshillchurch.org/content/elders"><span style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline;">HERE</span></a> .</p>
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